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gronzar 26d
Idk. Lifting for the sake of lifting something feels like paradoxical and counterproductive to me
gronzar 26d
Looking back I feel like my prime (both in terms of mind and body) was always when the capability of my body was actually the means to get to somewhere, not the end goal or the destination itselfโ€ฆ
shcnhumcb is this the study you mean? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8637535/
If so, I'm very doubtful about your interpretations of the results, let's review the findings together:

"Fat-free mass did not change significantly in the group assigned to placebo but no exercise (Table 4 and Figure 1). The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass, and those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg. The increase in the testosterone-plus-exercise group was substantially greater (averaging 6.1 kg). The percentage of body fat did not change significantly in any group (data not shown)."

So:

no testosterone + exercise = 1.9kg
testosterone + no exercise = 3.2kg
testosterone + exercise = 6.1kg
But the important part to me comes more when it's about actual muscle strength:

"Muscle strength in the bench-press and the squatting exercises did not change significantly over the 10-week period in the group assigned to placebo with no exercise. The men in the testosterone-alone and placebo-plus-exercise groups had significant increases in the one-repetition maximal weights lifted in the squatting exercises, averaging 19 percent and 21 percent, respectively (Table 4 and Figure 1). Similarly, mean bench-press strength increased in these two groups by 10 percent and 11 percent, respectively. In the testosterone-plus-exercise group, the increase in muscle strength in the squatting exercise (38 percent) was greater than that in any other group, as was the increase in bench-press strength (22 percent)."

no testosterone + exercise = 21% & 11% stronger
testosterone + no exercise = 19% & 10% stronger
testosterone + exercise = 38% & 22% stronger
So the pure testosterone did gain 1.6x more muscle mass in muscles than the pure exercise group, but they actually had no significant difference in strength.

However, both of these groups were heavily outperformed by the testosterone + exercise group.
I do agree about that, that's why I mostly now use my nomadism to stay in places where I can whatever sport I'm most into in that moment, like skiing or surfing.

That said, I can also though totally see how if my make gym about a social experience with friends, or a mindful experience with your thoughts away from work, be just as good for you as doing sports like skiing and surfing, it's all just mental and might differ from person to person.
What I've always found tough with gym is that it's rather easy to over focus on specific isolated repetitions instead of full body exercises. That can easily lead to aspects like loss of flexibility, hip stiffness, and other problems, which is something you don't have to actively avoid with other sport.
4gnlex 25d
the evidence is mixed, and it relies more heavily on genes than the actual use of creatine

i.e., if you're prone to male-pattern balding, you will probably get slightly accelerated balding from taking creatine and exercising because it may increase your testosterone and thus your DHT levels (although there's no significant proof of this, it's a fair assessment from a scientific standpoint)

but if you don't have any clear predisposition to balding, then you're better off taking creatine than not as it is unlikely it will cause any change

In fact, anyone is better off taking creatine. if you suspect it may increase your balding rate, then find some finasteride/minoxidil/ketoconazole combo and use it every day - obviously it will be a life sentence but it's better off that way for $50-100 a month than having none of the benefits that creatine offers
4gnlex 25d
It's on great part due to mind-muscle connection and small part due to placebo, although "just thinking" is unlikely to cause any effect without proper exercise, dieting, and/or anabolic treatment

the truth is, exercising brings more benefits than just muscles, so it's a good think to do regardless of your goals because it will help you in more ways than one. but of course, having decently good muscles is a huge plus and everyone should strive for that regardless
gronzar 25d
Sure, you can have your own opinion. Iโ€™m not trying to prove anything or convince anyone
gronzar 25d
I personally donโ€™t limit my beliefs to scientific studies but no offense to anyone who does
gronzar 25d
Iโ€™m an engineer. I lived that way my whole life, I believe I do understand where youโ€™re coming from
gronzar 25d
And Iโ€™m not saying I disagree by any meansโ€ฆ
gronzar 25d
I donโ€™t look at this as something contradictory either
gronzar 25d
I think the minds that can entertain two or even more different truths at once is stronger and more creative
gronzar 25d
One can both follow the science of bodybuilding and the art of bodybuilding
gronzar 25d
A bodybuilder who follows the science for one month and does not follow the science or any other โ€œruleโ€ the society presses on him I believe would see better results compared to someone who follows the science all the time lol
gronzar 25d
Adrenaline can make wonders for the body, we all know of the examples of this in history, people lifting weights beyond imaginable, just because they had the best reason to do so (danger of death of self or offspring or a loved one etc)
gronzar 25d
IMO when we start looking at everything in terms of numbers, or right/wrong, or true/false, this kills our soul slowly, kills intuition, nature of hormones etc
gronzar 25d
After all, the art is there so that we donโ€™t die of too much reality overdose ahaha!!
gronzar 25d
But Iโ€™m still using logic to explain my ideas, which is self-defeating in itself ๐Ÿซ 
gronzar 25d
I think the mind is so incredible that we canโ€™t even begin to understand its brilliance. Itโ€™s a realm where the combination of real and unreal meet
gronzar 25d
The unreal side is often overlooked IMO
gronzar 25d
For example we know that when a painkiller is more expensive, itโ€™s more effective!!!!!
gronzar 25d
Nowโ€ฆ can we say the seller is scamming us?
gronzar 25d
Iโ€™m not sure. Yes and no?
gronzar 25d
Itโ€™s easy to say that this is placebo, but whatโ€™s its limits?
gronzar 25d
Why wouldnโ€™t it work in other areas?
4gnlex 25d
true, we fall into scientism and fail to adventure out there to try for ourselves, that still does not mean thinking about muscles will grow them though, it's probably a mix of thinking about them then being more aware about exercising them, flexing, eating well, etc. after the thought

but you have a fair idea, ty for sharing
lsousa 25d
anyone traveling long term have ever done an ironman 70.3 in between trips?
levelsio 25d
Yes agreed

I'd rather have more muscle mass but be balding slightly faster and fixing that by flying to Turkey sometime, than being skinny but with a bit more hairline
The earlier you start the better. I realised too late, and so bald is the best answer now. Wringing my hands about it wasnโ€™t an option, so now I max out creatine every day, never worry about hair. Gym without fuss.
levelsio 25d
Damn what do you suggest? Rubbing minoxidil on hairline? Or just fly to Turkey? :D
levelsio 25d
My hairline isn't so bad but it's not as great as it was esp the corners
maristia 23d
Have you guys been experimenting with AI to create training programs? I've just tried a few times and I have to say results are great! I'm an experienced gym goer, and all the results I've got made a lot of sense. I recommend to at least try :)
I did some YouTube research and decided if you have the gene, then you will eventually go bald. There are dudes who choose to go bald sooner instead of later, or dudes who invest the time and money and do some combination of: low dose finasteride (with rare ๐Ÿ† side effects), microneedling stabber (not roller) and topical (or oral) minoxidil, to maintain what youโ€™ve got. If you get the hair surgery without that effort it wonโ€™t last long.
4gnlex 23d
Which AI tool were you using
maristia 23d
I like Claude but tried with the others also (ChatGPT, Gemini, etc)
levelsio 23d
Yeah I don't think I have the gene, but I do see my hairline go bit less, but none of my fam is bald
x3nome 23d
Minor surgery also works pretty well to patch things up. Worth checking if the finasteride causes any side effects (e.g. try it for a few months) in case you might make the investment some day. But I think the risk of side effect is generally overstated and people get weird about it.
omtare 23d
I'd prefer to avoid the life sentence of taking drugs with potential side effects every day and not get the benefits of creatine but each to their own
omtare 23d
I read somewhere there is a risk of permanent erectile dysfunction
omtare 23d
Obviously a small risk but it's one I'd prefer not to expose myself to
omtare 23d
Perfect hair health is a decent subscription service for anyone looking to learn more about options for dealing with hair loss btw
x3nome 23d
I'm not a doctor, but side effects usually go away when you stop taking a drug.
omtare 23d
https://menshealth.com/health/a19543287/hair-loss-drugs-and-erectile-dysfunction/
omtare 23d
All in all, 1.4 percent of men who too the finaseride or dutasteride developed persistent ED, which continued, on average, for more than three and a half yearsโ€”or 1,348 daysโ€”after stopping the drugs. The duration of use was a more accurate predictor of ED than other known risk factors, like older age, high blood pressure, diabetes, smoking, and obesity.
omtare 23d
" "
omtare 23d
scary stuff
x3nome 23d
Hmm, hadn't heard about that, and just fell down a rabbit hole reading about it (original article cited above included). Anyone considering it, may you be a part of the lucky 98.6%! https://peerj.com/articles/3020/
Anecdote about creatine. My mate and I were about to go to the gym together, and preparing to travel overseas. He had filled one protein shaker with that day's protein powder. He filled a second, identical shaker with all the creatine powder planned for the whole trip. You can guess what happened next.
He accidentally added water to the pure creatine shaker and chugged it. "You ready for the gym bro??" "uhhh not feeling so good aye". He'd taken a monstrous hero dose of several weeks of creatine, all in one go. He skipped gym that day ๐Ÿ˜‚ Poisons info hotline said "you'll be right mate" and nothing bad happened to him aside from feeling really sick that day.
Next time he went to the gym, placebo or not, he smashed his normal lifts and lifted really strong ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿ˜‚ So don't fuss over exactly 3g vs 5g doses, you'll be right mate.
levelsio 19d
The Myth: Creatine and Erectile Dysfunction
However, there is no substantial scientific evidence linking creatine use to the development of ED. The myth may have originated from a general concern about the side effects of supplements on male sexual health.
levelsio 19d
can't say I have problems with that haha
levelsio 19d
Now that I think about it

I started creatine like 2 years ago, and already remember hairline was a bit worse than 10y ago so I don't think it's related to creatine
levelsio 19d
hah 6 years oops, will check why this is
levelsio 19d
there's no shadow banning, modding is 100% by GPT4o, all it does is mute temporarily but shouldn't be 6 years ๐Ÿ˜„
levelsio 19d
๐Ÿ’ In ".timeAgoLong($user['epoch_signup']+3086400)." you can start posting links.";
levelsio 19d
"$user['epoch_signup']>strtotime("-30 days") || // signed up in last 30 days
$user['epoch_last_active']
levelsio 19d
it's this
levelsio 19d
fixed now
omtare 19d
Creatine and hair loss was the link
omtare 19d
And hair loss drugs and ED
omtare 19d
Not creatine and ED except in a very roundabout way
levelsio 19d
ah ok
Hmm, looks interesting.
I'm looking for a new programme and this might be it
No swimming?
Waaay too much volume though
gronzar 16d
Disagree. Nothing about fitness is ever that simple ๐Ÿซ 
Donโ€™t have access to a nearby pool so switched it for rowing
Best weightlifters Iโ€™ve known/followed say otherwise
Their motto is to keep it as simple as possible
Consistency is always the complicated bit
naz 12d
What is yall's take on the anabolic window and eating post-workout?

I recently shifted my bjj training to evenings. From my understanding the consensus is that you gotta eat within 1-2 hours after the workout to gain most benefits. If I just go to sleep fasted after training my understanding is that I'd miss out on good recovery and cannibalize some of the muscle.
naz 12d
This video seems to go deep enough into the topic without the fluff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tALUxxVxqA8
naz 12d
I'm mostly curious how people manage their sleep post late evening workouts.

For example, on rest days I eat last meal at 5pm and go to sleep at 9-10pm. On BJJ days last workout is around 7pm and realistically I'd have a shake and few bananas around 7:30. But than I find it hard to calm down and sleep until around midnight.
Best time in the gym is around 3pm or 4pm. Late enough that my brain is drained from deep + busy work, but early enough that the 9-5 hordes havenโ€™t yet stormed the machines. If you have your last meal as a protein shake you can fast for a pretty long time before bed. You sleep early Naz, which is also great. Without great sleep there are no gains.
4gnlex 11d
Jeff is one of the most well-respected fitness influencers out there because he's a researcher and has skin in the game, so anything he says should be usually good to follow (as long as video is <2-3yo)

Personally, I try to eat either as soon as possible or before 1hr has passed. The best meal is usually a protein shake, recommend two scoops and some fruit (banana for potassium and berries for fiber) if you're making it the last meal of the day.
andrew9 11d
Interesting info here about bananas and blueberries: apparently bananas cancel out some of the benefits (mood and cognitive) of blueberries if consumed simultaneously

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EpOTf7pWq70&t=30s&pp=ygUWcmhvbmRhIGJlcnJpZXMgYmFubmFuYQ%3D%3D
4gnlex 10d
I don't think it makes much of a difference, especially because there's more benefit from adding than from not. Also, "cancel out" is a strong statement, how was that studied in the first place? ๐Ÿ˜‚
andrew9 10d
She mentions the study (a 2023 controlled trial) and the logic behind it at the 5:00 mark in the video. It is pretty simple: bananas contain polyphenol oxidase, which destroys polyphenols. Polyphenols are one of the important nutrients in blueberries linked to mood and brain function, as well as being antioxidant, etc.

The study gave participants a smoothie with blueberries and with or without a banana. They then took blood and urine samples and for those who had the banana smoothie, their polyphenol levels plumetted.

anyway iโ€™m not trying to convince you in particular, i just thought to share the video for anyone who is interested in putting blueberries and banana in their smoothie
4gnlex 10d
I will say it's a valid opinion and study but I don't know if it is worth taking into consideration because a) how soon were the samples taken after drinking the smoothie? b) does it take into account quantity of fruit? c) what other nutrients apart from polyphenols were "plumetted" or "canceled out" by the banana? d) did the study consider effects in long-term (days, weeks, months?)

What I'm trying to say is I don't think telling people "don't mix banana with blueberries because banana bad ๐Ÿ˜ž" is a good idea, especially in the context of post-workout meal

Apart from that, I respect your opinion and understand why you brought it up thank you
Have had lower back problems for the past few years. Seems like a minor bulged disk and degeneration in L3/L5.

Unfortunately, my insurance wonโ€™t pay for steroid injections, which the doctor recommended. And here in Dubai they charge $4k for an injection.

Any cities/countries you guys can recommend where I can do it cheaper and safely?

Thinking of Bangkok - had a medical issue there before and was treated exceptionally well.
naz 7d
Not sure about this specific issue, but Bangkok has some of the best hospitals in the world. This one is considered top hospital in Thailand

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/
Theres no scientific evidence for nothing that they dont want to sell you

Everything is funded by the people that want your money
Did you try switching to barefoot shoes?
naz 7d
I am not a doctor, but from personal injury experience finding a good physio/rehab doc could mitigate the need to even do an intervention like this. I'd try hard and work with someone on rehabbing hard before injecting anything into the spine
I also had lower back pain all my life , especially from walking alot,since i switched i no longer have back pain
You are suggesting supressing/reducing DHT with finasteride in order to take creatine? No, thanks
4gnlex 7d
Fair, although for most people it's generally safe, it's recommended to try a few weeks before going all in
I think yes, it's safe for a lot of people. But side effects are often subtle. Lack of energy etc can be hard to detect. After one week i had mental fog and a weird feeling in my tits (finasteride)
Iโ€™ve been through all of the non invasive treatments. Nothing has helped.

Local steroid injections donโ€™t pose any major risks as far as Iโ€™ve read and been told by various back specialists.
Do you do hyperextensions in gym? Helped my low back issues
Yeah Iโ€™ve been doing hyperextensions and the likes for over a year.
omtare 6d
https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/0446557684

This solved mine, and for several people I've recommended it to
omtare 6d
First heard of it from Tim Ferriss
omtare 6d
I had serious pain on and off for maybe 6/7 years
Thanks, will check out!

Ironically, Tim Ferriss still hasnโ€™t solved his back pain issues. Was talking about doing stem cell therapy in one of the recent pods
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