Yes, and they’ve said the same thing

I think I found you in our support system. Will investigate 🙏

are there insurance products which specifically insure against unexpected complications that may arise as a result of an operation?

take this scenario:
a person has a normal international health insurance, but due to a pre-existing condition they have an exclusion in the insurance
they have a health problem related specifically to that issue which is excluded from their normal international health insurance
a doctor or hospital is making them an offer for an operation, with a price that the person can pay themselves out of pocket
however, with every operation there is a risk of unexpected complications, like for example due to an infection, which will require further treatments and which can unpredictably raise the total cost of the treatment

are there insurance products which the person could buy which would only insure against potential unexpected complications and the cost of their treatment?

Hey Mauro!
If that said treatment or surgery is subject to the exclusion caused by a pre-existing condition then this exclusion is related to all further consequences of this condition. So the answer (on the international market for nomad insurance) is: No.

A system that covers pre-existing conditions is national health systems aka government organized social security systems which on the one side force every resident to contribute and on the other side defy mechanics of the market by granting coverage to everybody (including all their conditions).

Hi, thanks for your reply.
I'm aware that a normal health insurance is always going to deny those claims if they can associate them with an exclusion.
My question was basically if there isn't some other type of insurance which the person could buy on a per-operation basis, only to insurance against unexpected complications of that specific operation.

Maybe somewhere as a localized product specific to a certain geography. But on the international market: Not that I have ever heard of something like that.

Ic, thanks. I guess it's maybe too much of a niche-thing

Haha! Funny! That seems to be specifically designed for all the guys coming to Türkiye for their hair transplants (going wrong)! 😃

yeah, in this case it's pretty specific for complications as a result of medical tourism to Turkey for plastic surgery.
i was looking for something like that, but it would have to cover complications caused by a spinal surgery in Switzerland, so far i haven't found such a product.

Keep in mind: Insurance is not social welfare.
It's a business that builds and manages (big enough) randomized groups to cover each member against the consequences of an impactful incident which happens with a statistical probability but similarly uncertain for each member.
So the risk you seek to cover is basically un-insurable as the probabilities are adverse to any mathematical model. Or as the industry calls it: There is a negative risk selection among clients. Only individuals with a high risk would buy the product. So the numbers won't ever add up.

that explanation is surprising to me, i thought that this business model should make sense:

let's say 1 out of 10 operations result in complications, the statistical average cost of the treatment for the complications is $10k if they do occur.
this means that at average the insurance company would have to pay out $1k per operation which they insured ($10k/10=$1k).
if they'd sell that insurance to individuals at a price of $2k per operation, at average they'd earn $1k per operation, and the individuals would be insured against an unexpected bill of $10k.

Plus margins, cost of distribution and management, marketing etc.
Usually insurance in these numbers would sell if it costs 50$ and the risk is 100K. That would be a no-brainer for many.

But at these odds: Would you buy the product? If your odds are 1:10 and you could save 2K with not buying it and having (only) a 10K risk?
Most people would rather gamble.

Insurance is rather a thing for events of a low probability but a massive (existential) impact.

You don't buy health insurance to cover you for the Thai motorbike accident of which the treatments cost you 1,000 USD. But you buy it for the long-term diseases that are rare but can cost you (literally) an arm and a leg.

I'm catching up on the chat. What became of this?

I feel it's important for Nomads to understand what went wrong here.

Our support is helping Trisha where they can. We can't publicly share any updates on cases about particular customers due to data privacy.

@thetrishalim it would be great if you can keep everyone here informed.

Genki support reached out to the claims team to reconsider my case, and I’ve sent them a medical report.

Waiting to hear back

Will update here :)

How to know if it's the first time I get dengue? I'm starting to have fever etc, i don't know what else could be
Also, which insurance can i get fast? I'm not insured

I wish you a quick recovery from that!

And then take out insurance ASAP for future cases. No insurance will cover symptoms that already occured before the start of the coverage. Even travel insurance taken out while already traveling usually has waiting periods at the beginning.

how much may i pay in the case it gets worse and i have to be hospitalized?

Depends on the country you're in.
But I wouldn't run wild on those thoughts.

If you really feel that bad consult a doctor and ask for local advise rather too early than too late. This will allow early counter-measures and help contain the cost risk.

i'm in phuket, thailand

Just ask your accommodation provider. Those locals have the best local knowledge and experience.

I need an insurance that's reliable

We're independent brokers specializing in this matter. I'll contact you directly.

Great news 🎉

They’re reimbursing me

Genki support has been extremely helpful for following up with the insurance provider. Thank you yoxsqnsgqcoz

Great, thank you for the update!

I apologize that it wasn't done properly from the start.
We're already looking into how to make the explaining, checking, and waiving of the waiting period easier for everyone involved.

Hey folks,
I’m looking for recommendations on an international health + travel insurance plan that meets a few key criteria:
- Covers both health and travel insurance in one plan
- Comprehensive health coverage, including long-term conditions—not just emergencies
- Travel coverage for things like flight cancellations, delays, lost luggage, theft, and other travel mishaps
- Coverage at home (Morocco) for at least 6 months per year, since I don’t have local health insurance and will be using this as my primary coverage
- Lifetime coverage, so if I develop any medical conditions, they’ll be covered long-term

I’ve researched a few options like SafetyWing, Genki, and Cigna Global. They all seem to have their pros and cons, but I’d love to hear from real users rather than influencer ads.

If you’ve used any of these (or have a better suggestion), I’d really appreciate your insights!

Thanks in advance!

Maybe some general advice on insurance.
Anything that you are insuring yourself against, you know that the insurance company has calculated that the premiums you are paying them are greater than the risk of the thing occuring the average payout. So my general approach is, that for events I could easily cover myself, I am not going to insure myself against. Therefore I have no travel insurance that would cover lost luggage, flight cancellations or delays.
With health insurance I have a very high deductible, which brings my monthly costs down by a lot. I only want them to cover me for catastrophic events that could finanically ruin me.

Hey Nomads! I haven't had any insurance for the past 6 years or so as I rarely got sick, and was living a relatively safe life in the US. Now that I'm full time nomading I feel like I should pick some up since my exposure to different illnesses is higher, and I'm riding motorbikes a lot, etc.

I used ChatGPT to understand some of the basics. It seems like for full time travel with almost no time in my home country (USA) I'm best getting some International Health Insurance as opposed to travel insurance.

I see a few companies mentioned often such as Cigna Global, Allianz, GeoBlue, or Aetna International. It also seems like Genki / Safetywing have plans that might cover what I need?

Not even sure what I should consider getting covered really. I suppose mostly just emergency / expensive stuff as local doctor vists and medication is probably going to be cheap where I'm traveling (South East Asia).

Any tips / advice would be appreciated in terms of what type of coverage I should get, and what companies you recommend.

Thanks in advance for any time spent on this 🙏

If you'd like to educate yourself more here is a comprehensive guide written by independent brokers specialized in the matter (free consultation available there, too):
https://nomads.insure/insurance-guide-for-digital-nomads/

In general if you look into this long-term I wouldn't go with insurance that comes with annual renewal but with providers that offer unlimited duration so they can't alter the terms or renew only with a personal pricing (e.g. after you acquired some chronic diseases).

I'll check this out, thanks. And good tip. The ability for a company to renew annually with different terms is not something I would have thought about.

The annual renewal is rather an American thing while European providers offer unlimited duration.

I use Cigna global plan and it literally has saved my life. I think tsqrmqqahzl offers it too!

Yes, as independent brokers we also work with Cigna. But as they don't offer contracts with indefinite duration (only "annual renewals" on their terms) I don't usually actively recommend them.

Ah ok! As in the price can change every year? Or as in they can cut it off the following year

Price changes within the range of medical inflation (in the long-term average around 3 to 5 percent per year) are normal in the entire market. But what annual renewal offers often come with are not only general inflation compensations but also changes in the terms and conditions plus "individual pricing". Meaning: If you have contracted a chronic condition or in general are too expensive then the insurance provider will make you a renewal offer that you can only refuse.

That happens in practice and that's why we don't offer plans with annual renewal (opposed to plans with indefinite duration) to digital nomads with a long-term perspective on their location independent lifestyle. Annual renewals can make sense if you're planning to explore the world for two or three years. But if your life planning is based on it then I wouldn't take that risk.

Thanks so much for sharing. This is one of the most common companies I see recommended online so I think that's a good sign.

zcvpnbvcxja replying here to your message in the general channel. I’ve had Genki. Never needed to make a claim, but they seem to be good. Founded by a nomadlist member. Now I have good coverage for up to 4 months at a time with my amex, so might just rely on it since I regularly return to my base.

As long as you have a comprehensive underlying health insurance back in that base country: That can be a cost-effective setup (up to Amex's age limit).

Thanks for the info; I also have had Ganki and not needed to make a claim; they are currently slightly pricier than SafetyWings though

The difference here is that Genki is actually regulated and has a license. With them it's clear where they are registered and in which country (Germany) at which court (Cologne) you would meet to get your right.

Some other black sheep in this industry rather disguise their whereabouts and hide behind a Caribbean islands fake license. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Interesting I didn’t know that. I’ll have to look into that more

Just recently I also had to check what works for me as an additional travel insurance to my base coverage in Germany. My typical travel insurance had a time limit.
They recommended Mawista, as it was the only one that can be started without being in the country to their knowledge. That was false, there are other ones that would have worked, but they were the best deal for me.
I checked Genki and PassportCard, but Mawista was covering my diving activities and didn't have any part that you have to pay yourself 🙂